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> <channel><title>Comments on: Permanence</title> <atom:link href="http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/</link> <description>web 2.0, blogs and social media</description> <lastBuildDate>Mon, 30 May 2011 20:58:01 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3</generator> <item><title>By: Deirdre</title><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/#comment-13654</link> <dc:creator>Deirdre</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:24:16 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://twopointouch.com/?p=948#comment-13654</guid> <description>Finally got it together post-Delete and gathered my thoughts, sort of...
http://innovationeye.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/delete-not-fade-away-and-radiate/</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally got it together post-Delete and gathered my thoughts, sort of…</p><p><a
href="http://innovationeye.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/delete-not-fade-away-and-radiate/" rel="nofollow">http://innovationeye.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/delete-not-fade-away-and-radiate/</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Delete, not fade away and radiate? &#171; Innovation Cloud</title><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/#comment-13653</link> <dc:creator>Delete, not fade away and radiate? &#171; Innovation Cloud</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:30:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://twopointouch.com/?p=948#comment-13653</guid> <description>[...] digital permanence was the dish of the day. But the opposite view – that digital is an extremely fragile and ephemeral medium for so much of human culture and activity to be engraved and invested in, and that we should make [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] digital permanence was the dish of the day. But the opposite view – that digital is an extremely fragile and ephemeral medium for so much of human culture and activity to be engraved and invested in, and that we should make […]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Doug Kessler</title><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/#comment-13450</link> <dc:creator>Doug Kessler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:59:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://twopointouch.com/?p=948#comment-13450</guid> <description>I do agree digital is different -- just not sure what the implications are yet.
You might like Nicholson Baker&#039;s book &#039;Double Fold&#039; on how libraries destroyed physical newspapers in place of crappy microfilm:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Double-Fold-Libraries-Assault-Paper/dp/0375726217/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1256309738&amp;sr=8-9</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do agree digital is different — just not sure what the implications are yet.</p><p>You might like Nicholson Baker’s book ‘Double Fold’ on how libraries destroyed physical newspapers in place of crappy microfilm:</p><p><a
href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Double-Fold-Libraries-Assault-Paper/dp/0375726217/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1256309738&#038;sr=8-9" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Double-Fold-Libraries-Assault-Paper/dp/0375726217/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1256309738&amp;sr=8–9</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ian Delaney</title><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/#comment-13449</link> <dc:creator>Ian Delaney</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:50:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://twopointouch.com/?p=948#comment-13449</guid> <description>Doug, Dumbledad:
I&#039;ve quite possibly painted myself into a corner here. However, I do stand by the notion that the printed word has a different status to electronic text. I recall throwing away reams of paper doing my A-levels, since that was the only way to re-draft anything. Electronic text, on the other hand, is inherently malleable. The way that everything is now recorded in the latter form has considerable implications for memory, history, etc.
Not really sure what they are yet, granted!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug, Dumbledad:</p><p>I’ve quite possibly painted myself into a corner here. However, I do stand by the notion that the printed word has a different status to electronic text. I recall throwing away reams of paper doing my A-levels, since that was the only way to re-draft anything. Electronic text, on the other hand, is inherently malleable. The way that everything is now recorded in the latter form has considerable implications for memory, history, etc.</p><p>Not really sure what they are yet, granted!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Doug Kessler</title><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/#comment-13448</link> <dc:creator>Doug Kessler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:35:03 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://twopointouch.com/?p=948#comment-13448</guid> <description>What percentage of the written word was really &#039;permanent&#039; in the pre-Internet era?
Pen and paper -- or even published book – may feel permanent but I&#039;d bet a tiny fraction proves to be.
Maybe permanence comes form the strength of the idea and quality of the telling -- whether digital or analog...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What percentage of the written word was really ‘permanent’ in the pre-Internet era?</p><p>Pen and paper — or even published book – may feel permanent but I’d bet a tiny fraction proves to be.</p><p>Maybe permanence comes form the strength of the idea and quality of the telling — whether digital or analog…</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: dumbledad</title><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/#comment-13438</link> <dc:creator>dumbledad</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:50:44 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://twopointouch.com/?p=948#comment-13438</guid> <description>Saying that The Internet Archive &quot;may not&quot; exist is not the same as arguing that it won&#039;t exist. What are your arguments that it will go away?
I think the interesting point is that we cannot predict permanence. Off-the-cuff comments that we wish would be expunged may haunt us forever while exquisitely crafted emails may be nowhere to be found.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saying that The Internet Archive “may not” exist is not the same as arguing that it won’t exist. What are your arguments that it will go away?</p><p>I think the interesting point is that we cannot predict permanence. Off-the-cuff comments that we wish would be expunged may haunt us forever while exquisitely crafted emails may be nowhere to be found.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Deirdre</title><link>http://twopointouch.com/2009/web-2-0/permanence/#comment-13433</link> <dc:creator>Deirdre</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:21:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://twopointouch.com/?p=948#comment-13433</guid> <description>Ian, expletively powerful stuff. Here&#039;s that article I mentioned down the pub:
On memory, forgetting and the net - James Harkin
http://www.jamesharkin.co.uk/2009/on-memory-forgetting-and-the-net-feature-in-tomorrows-sunday-times-london/
What&#039;s really spooky is how you&#039;ve gone on to convey here exactly what I think on other things related to this that we didn&#039;t actually discuss! So this is what happens when you hove into view one night at an event on RSS (http://blip.tv/file/74092)... synchronicity and brilliance :-)
I need to ruminate a bit but yeah, I hear you. At least four large sites I&#039;ve edited and written reams for (and helped build/design) - some of which I also actually cared about - have gone forever, thanks to the wonders of the interwebs. And yes, the Internet Archive is wiping old stuff it archives on the WayBackMachine because they can&#039;t afford to store it all I guess. But no-one seems to be thinking about what this means in the long-term, never mind how it impacts us personally and professionally. They (we?) are all caught up in the moment.
Can&#039;t quite muster the digital quill to respond in kind just now. But to hell with currency, I&#039;ll get round to it. In the meantime here&#039;s a few other interesting pieces on impermanence and it&#039;s possible unknown flipside, but none of them come even close to your concentrated focus... (hoping you comment spam filter doesn&#039;t chew &#039;em):
When others delete your past - Dan Gillmor
http://mediactive.com/2009/05/09/when-others-delete-your-past/
The internet cupboard - Russell Davies
http://russelldavies.typepad.com/planning/2008/09/the-internet-cu.html
We&#039;re in danger of losing our memories - Lynne Brindley
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jan/25/internet-heritage
Ephemeral forever - Alan Patrick
http://broadstuff.com/archives/1616-Ephemeral-For-Ever.html</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, expletively powerful stuff. Here’s that article I mentioned down the pub:</p><p>On memory, forgetting and the net — James Harkin<br
/> <a
href="http://www.jamesharkin.co.uk/2009/on-memory-forgetting-and-the-net-feature-in-tomorrows-sunday-times-london/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jamesharkin.co.uk/2009/on-memory-forgetting-and-the-net-feature-in-tomorrows-sunday-times-london/</a></p><p>What’s really spooky is how you’ve gone on to convey here exactly what I think on other things related to this that we didn’t actually discuss! So this is what happens when you hove into view one night at an event on RSS (<a
href="http://blip.tv/file/74092" rel="nofollow">http://blip.tv/file/74092</a>)… synchronicity and brilliance :-)</p><p>I need to ruminate a bit but yeah, I hear you. At least four large sites I’ve edited and written reams for (and helped build/design) — some of which I also actually cared about — have gone forever, thanks to the wonders of the interwebs. And yes, the Internet Archive is wiping old stuff it archives on the WayBackMachine because they can’t afford to store it all I guess. But no-one seems to be thinking about what this means in the long-term, never mind how it impacts us personally and professionally. They (we?) are all caught up in the moment.</p><p>Can’t quite muster the digital quill to respond in kind just now. But to hell with currency, I’ll get round to it. In the meantime here’s a few other interesting pieces on impermanence and it’s possible unknown flipside, but none of them come even close to your concentrated focus… (hoping you comment spam filter doesn’t chew ‘em):</p><p>When others delete your past — Dan Gillmor<br
/> <a
href="http://mediactive.com/2009/05/09/when-others-delete-your-past/" rel="nofollow">http://mediactive.com/2009/05/09/when-others-delete-your-past/</a></p><p>The internet cupboard — Russell Davies<br
/> <a
href="http://russelldavies.typepad.com/planning/2008/09/the-internet-cu.html" rel="nofollow">http://russelldavies.typepad.com/planning/2008/09/the-internet-cu.html</a></p><p>We’re in danger of losing our memories — Lynne Brindley<br
/> <a
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jan/25/internet-heritage" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jan/25/internet-heritage</a></p><p>Ephemeral forever — Alan Patrick<br
/> <a
href="http://broadstuff.com/archives/1616-Ephemeral-For-Ever.html" rel="nofollow">http://broadstuff.com/archives/1616-Ephemeral-For-Ever.html</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
